> Yonge North Subway Extension LIVE - December 16, 2021 | Metrolinx Engage

Yonge North Subway Extension LIVE - December 16, 2021

 

Call-In With Your Question

As we continue to evolve the virtual engagement format, we are adding a call-in option for tonight’s event. To ask your question by voice, join the Zoom meeting here. We aim to keep each question and subsequent answer to 3 minutes allowing for as many call-in questions as possible.

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Agenda

6:30: Meeting Begins/ Opening Remarks  

6:35: Yonge north Subway Extension Project Update 

7:00: Questions and Answers 

8:00: Wrap up & Closing Remarks 

Presentation Materials

Virtual Open House – December 16, 2021 Outstanding Questions

Why did realtor visit residents before news of the refinement? The language in the letter is not clear. Do you want a subway under your house? Going under one home is too many. If this one refinement was made, why not revert to either of the original options, i.e., along Yonge, have local community and government support, and serve the community best? Is there truly a need for a High Tech and Bridge Station?

In addition to the route options we looked at through our business case analysis, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor.

We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations.

Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, tunneling under Royal Orchard is the best transit solution.

Bridge and High Tech stations will support York Region’s growth plans for the Langstaff Gateway and Richmond Hill Centre urban grow centres, which have been in place for many years in response to the demand for housing and employment opportunities in the region. Since those areas are expected to grow significantly in the years to come, these stations will help make sure any growth is sustainable by contributing a large portion of the riders that will use the subway extension. Located between Highway 7 and Highway 407, Bridge Station will create vital connections between the subway and the Richmond Hill GO line, as well as GO bus, Viva Bus Rapid Transit and local bus services that run along the two major highways. It’s also worth noting that the station at High Tech Road would put the subway within walking distance for more than half of the residents expected to live in the Richmond Hill Centre area by 2041.

At the Bridge Station, will the station be designed like a side by side station where the YNSE will connect directly with the Richmond Hill GO and potentially a future northern extension of the Ontario Line?

Bridge Station will make it easier to get around the region by providing convenient connections to the subway, GO trains, and regional and local bus services. We are exploring how we can strengthen the connections between transit lines to give riders more travel options and improve the customer experience. We will have more details to share when the Preliminary Design Business Case is finalized.

Municipal councils in Markham and Vaughan voted against Option 3. Both candidates for federal office in the recent election were against Option 3. Both candidates in the upcoming provincial election are against Option 3. And you haven't listened to any of our elected representatives. How can you possibly call that 'consultation'.

Input from municipal and regional planners informed the development of the Initial Business Case and supplementary analysis. The insight we gathered from our partners helped us thoroughly understand the current land use characteristics, growth planned in each community served by the extension, and how that development will affect transit needs in the future. We’ll be working closely with our partners as the design and planning process moves forward.

We will continue to work with communities, municipalities and other partners such as the TTC and York Region Transit on further development of the operating plan for the extension as the project design and development progress.

Final decisions on project scope, including the route of the subway extension and station locations, will be made by the Province of Ontario, in consultation with government partners. These decisions will be informed by updated environmental studies, feedback from communities, and detailed technical work done by Metrolinx.

Why are the people in Royal Orchard being ignored? We at Royal Orchard are people not just property!

Metrolinx has refined plans for the subway extension that will result in deeper tunnels and a route that travels under far fewer residential properties in the Royal Orchard community than the previous route. The changes were in response to the feedback we’ve heard through engaging with municipalities and consulting with communities across York Region and Toronto over the past eight months. They mean that the subway tunnels will follow a route that travels mostly under Bay Thorn Drive wherever possible once they turn east from Yonge Street to connect with the rail corridor. The previous route went under 40 homes and an additional 23 properties, whereas the new route goes under 20 homes and 15 additional properties.

The tunnels below the Royal Orchard neighbourhood will be at a minimum depth of 21 metres and as deep as 50 metres below the surface, averaging a more significant depth through much of the community compared to previous plans. These refinements will keep things peaceful and quiet in the neighbourhoods along the route while still delivering all the benefits of the subway extension for York Region.

Metrolinx is committed to addressing any noise and vibration due to construction and operation of the extension. Our aim is to ensure no appreciable difference between existing noise and vibration levels in your community.

We will work with communities to ensure a comprehensive array of solutions are in place to keep things peaceful and quiet when the extension is up and running. We’re looking at a wide array of proven noise and vibration solutions for the project, like high-grade rail fasteners that keep all the parts tightly together, rubber dampers that attach to the rails to absorb vibration, and large rubber mats that go under the tracks to absorb noises and vibrations.

Option 3 seems to be the only option being considered at this point. However, costs sound like they may be increasing with the proposed deeper tunnel. In light of potentially rising costs in option 3 will the first 2 options be reconsidered.

Options 1 and 2 have already been evaluated through our business case process. We also recently completed an additional detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor. This proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations.

Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, the project is moving forward with the recent refinements to the route.

Previously we were told that a hairpin turn could not be accommodated further north on Yonge near Langstaff, now it is showing up at Bay thorn. Pls explain. Also explain the impact of the presumably additional cost to tunnel deeper - is the deeper tunnel requirement adding to the projected cost of the project. Keep it on Yonge!

The curve in the adjusted route meets current TTC subway track standards for curves and grades, while maintaining vibration levels in Royal Orchard below the levels of what humans can feel.

The other options we analyzed would also hinder the ability of the Langstaff Gateway urban growth centre to realize longstanding regional and municipal growth plans because the proposal essentially splits the development into two parts and would place restrictions on the envisioned growth.

The total cost of the green alignment stays the same as the total cost of reference alignment.

Metrolinx has said before: turning from Yonge to east can not be a sharp curve. Now this refine plan has more sharper degree ( almost 90deg and two turns ) curves. Why this can be done if previous one can not?

The curve in the adjusted route meets current TTC subway track standards for curves and grades, while maintaining vibration levels in Royal Orchard below the levels of what humans can feel.

Go back to option 1 or 2. If now the 90deg curve plan is ok, why do not go back to option 1 or 2?

The approach we’re taking will help people all over York Region because it means we can include more stations along the subway extension, providing more congestion relief to existing transit lines and roadways. If we were to follow the other routes studied through the Initial Business Case, Metrolinx would only be able to build three stations. Running the subway along the CN rail corridor in the northern end of the extension will create better, faster connections with GO trains and bus rapid transit services in an area that is poised for growth.

The tunnels along the Yonge North Subway Extension will be built to strict design and engineering standards and will be much deeper underground than in many areas of Toronto’s existing subway network. The bottoms of the tunnels – where trains pass over the tracks – will be at least 20 metres deep in the Royal Orchard community – roughly as deep as a six-storey building is tall. We’re confident that high-quality, modern tunnels built to the latest industry standards will ensure future subway services won’t be a disruption for the community.

We’re going to be using noise and vibration solutions that have been proven to work on modern subway lines all over the world, including the extension of the western leg of Toronto’s Line 1 subway. Our designs will be based on up-to-date industry standards, which have significantly improved since the first subway lines in the GTA were built many decades ago.

we are determined to make the project the best possible fit for the communities it will serve. We’ll continue to work closely with our regional and municipal partners as we advance our plans.

You say this revised route will impact less houses but the street is not very wide and the tunnel will go under the property of all the houses long that street to say nothing of the 200+ units in the Gazebo. How can you say it impacts less properties?

The previous route went under 40 homes and an additional 23 properties, whereas the new route goes under 20 homes and 15 additional properties. The refined plans for the subway extension will result in deeper tunnels that follow a route that travels mostly under Bay Thorn Drive wherever possible once they turn east from Yonge Street to connect with the rail corridor.

Metrolinx said that they would look at other subway routing back in spring. Why have we not heard anything before or been involved with the review before this new routing?

Input from municipal and regional planners informed the development of the Initial Business Case and supplementary analysis. The insight we gathered from our partners helped us thoroughly understand the current land use characteristics, growth planned in each community served by the extension, and how that development will affect transit needs in the future. We’ll be working closely with our partners as the design and planning process moves forward.

In addition to the route options we looked at through our business case analysis, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor. We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations.

Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, tunneling under Royal Orchard is the best transit solution. We will continue to work with communities, municipalities and other partners such as the TTC and York Region Transit on further development of the operating plan for the extension as the project design and development progress.

Is there a geotechnical reason the subway can not use option ½

Detailed evaluations of each option can be found in the Initial Business Case and addendum, published in March 2021. The approach we’re taking will help people all over York Region because it means we can include more stations along the subway extension, providing more congestion relief to existing transit lines and roadways. If we were to follow the other routes studied through the Initial Business Case, Metrolinx would only be able to build three stations Running the subway along the CN rail corridor in the northern end of the extension will create better, faster connections with GO trains and bus rapid transit services in an area that is poised for growth.

We’re going to be using noise and vibration solutions that have been proven to work on modern subway lines all over the world, including the extension of the western leg of Toronto’s Line 1 subway. Our designs will be based on up-to-date industry standards, which have significantly improved since the first subway lines in the GTA were built many decades ago.

Why are Ms. McHugh and Phil Verster misleading the Thornhill community by stating that only 20 homes are affected when there are 200 homes at 8111 Yonge Street under which the subway will travel. When will Ms McHugh and Mr. Verster issue a retraction and acknowledge that the 200 homes in 8111 Yonge Street will be affected? Owneill expect substantial compensation for their subsurface space as it will affect rede

Metrolinx has refined plans for the subway extension that will result in deeper tunnels and a route that travels under far fewer single-family residential properties in the Royal Orchard community than the previous route. The changes mean the subway tunnels will follow a route that travels mostly under Bay Thorn Drive wherever possible once they turn east from Yonge Street to connect with the rail corridor. The previous route went under 40 homes and an additional 23 properties, whereas the new route goes under 20 homes and 15 additional properties.

Noise and vibration levels in the Royal Orchard community were already expected to be extremely low with no significant differences from today’s levels, and these adjustments will make them even lower. Ongoing ground studies and environmental assessments in the Royal Orchard community will inform project designs and help deliver the best solutions for local neighbourhoods. Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels will be so faint that it will be barely noticeable to human senses. We estimate sound levels will be about as quiet as the average whisper.

The adjusted route will travel below 8111 Yonge and the depths of the tunnels beneath the building will be very deep, approximately 50 metres below surface level. The tunnel boring machine used in construction is able to adjust to different types of soil and rock, including bedrock, to safely and effectively tunnel below properties with little or no settlement at the surface. The tunnels will be surrounded by thick reinforced concrete and will be built to strict design and engineering standards. These high-quality, modern tunnels built to the latest industry standards will ensure future subway services won’t be a disruption for the community.

Our approach to compensation for subsurface rights under a property is treated the same way as if we were taking a portion of a front or back lawn. That property has value and will be compensated for that value. Our property team will work closely with residents on developing a valuation, at our cost, and compensating residents accordingly. Our preferred approach is through amicable negotiations and settlement and we would only start an expropriation process, if it is necessary, to protect project timelines.

Which exact numbers of single-family homes on Bay Thorn Drive will be affected directly by trains going underground?

The adjusted route will travel deeper and under fewer single-family homes in the Royal Orchard community than the previous route. The changes mean the subway tunnels will follow a route that travels mostly under Bay Thorn Drive wherever possible once they turn east from Yonge Street to connect with the rail corridor. The previous route went under 40 homes and an additional 23 properties, whereas the new route goes under 20 homes and 15 additional properties.

The tunnels below the Royal Orchard neighbourhood will be at a minimum depth of 21 metres and as deep as 50 metres below the surface, averaging a more significant depth through much of the community compared to previous plans. These refinements will keep things peaceful and quiet in the neighbourhoods along the route while still delivering all the benefits of the subway extension for York Region.

Why is ML not tunnelling under the graveyard? The same turning radius can be made there. There are hairpin turns in the existing subway line as trains approach Union station at low speeds. Why can't these turns happen in this extensionas well?

Through our analysis, we found that running the subway tunnels below Holy Cross Cemetery would have made it necessary to relocate hundreds of burial sites since the tunnels would not be deep enough in this area. This could have affected thousands of people and added significantly to project timelines because we would need to identify, locate and get in touch with any next of kin to notify them of our plans before any burials are moved. With those issues in mind, planning and design teams advanced the analysis of the northern section of the route immediately after the Initial Business Case (IBC) was drafted and submitted for endorsement by the Metrolinx board. The refined route proposal presented alongside the IBC is the recommended path forward, and will be analyzed further in the Preliminary Design Business Case, which will guide the next phase of the project.

Will the current plan have to go under or through Holy Cross? How can it not? Even if you go on the CN corridor, it goes through the centre of the Cemetery. Would it not make more sense to just clip the north corner? Do you have permission from the cemetery to go through there? Do you have permission from CN to go through there?

The adjusted route ensures better placement of stations so as to minimize the disruption to Richmond Hill Centre, while also maximizing the developments and growth within that community. The Yonge North Subway Extension has two stations at the heart of Langstaff Gateway and Richmond Hill Centre, an area that is set to become a vibrant regional hub where people will live and work.

The new route will create a multi-modal transit hub at Bridge Station, which connects the subway to GO train, GO bus, York Region Viva bus rapid transit and the local bus network. Bridge Station will be accessible from Highway 7 and will remove approximately 130 buses on the roadways per peak hour from travelling into Richmond Hill Centre. Our plan will bring the many people who will live near Bridge and High Tech stations within a 10-minute walk of rapid transit.

Building the subway at surface level along the existing CN railway corridor reduces the need for complex and costly construction of tunnels and underground stations. We will also be able to complete the project sooner than if the subway was tunneled the entire length of the route. It also protects for a future potential northern extension of the subway by better utilizing the existing railway transportation corridor.

The route we’re moving forward with allows us to build a fourth station within the $5.6 billion funding envelope because it minimizes the amount of tunneling needed. With the other underground options, only three stations could be built. Running the subway along the CN rail corridor in the northern end of the extension will also create better, faster connections with GO trains and bus rapid transit services in an area that is poised for growth.

Did the Holy Cross Cemetery get an "affected" letter? We are private property owners, who have strenuously objected to subway under homes. They are private property owners, CN is private property owner. Did they get "affected properties" letter and told that their property might be taken or used?

The letters were intended to open the lines of communication with residents and homeowners along the northern section of the route to create opportunity and connection for further conversations. These letters were shared only with single-family homeowners. We have been and will continue to engage with all interested stakeholders as the design and planning process moves forward, including Holy Cross Cemetery.

Why can the route not run along the graveyard N or S boundary?

As part of our early planning work, we looked all options to bring the subway to the location of Bridge Station within the existing railway corridor, while avoiding tunneling under Royal Orchard. None of these provided better transit benefits.

In addition to the route options we looked at through our business case analysis, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor. We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, as well as complex construction and technical constraints.

Is the subway going under Holy Cross? Based on the High Tech and Bridge Engage evenings recently the diagrams shown show the subway beside the CN rail corridor not under like earlier represented. How does it travel pass the Holy Cross cemetery without going under it? How are the burial sites beside (or below) the alignment being affected by the Transit Lands Corridor buffer area?

Our goal when we plan and design large projects like this is to minimize impacts as much as possible, and there are unique challenges we face no matter where we build. Through our analysis, we found that running the subway tunnels below Holy Cross Cemetery would have made it necessary to relocate hundreds of burial sites since the tunnels would not be deep enough in this area. This could have affected thousands of people and added significantly to project timelines because we would need to identify, locate and get in touch with any next of kin to notify them of our plans before any burials are moved. With those issues in mind, planning and design teams advanced the analysis of the northern section of the route immediately after the Initial Business Case (IBC) was drafted and submitted for endorsement by the Metrolinx Board. The refined route proposal presented alongside the IBC is the recommended path forward, and will be analyzed further in the Preliminary Design Business Case, which will guide the next phase of the project.

The adjusted route ensures better placement of stations so as to minimize the disruption to Richmond Hill Centre, while also maximizing the developments and growth within that community. The Yonge North Subway Extension has two stations at the heart of Langstaff Gateway and Richmond Hill Centre, an area that is set to become a vibrant regional hub where people will live and work.

The new route will create a multi-modal transit hub at Bridge Station, which connects the subway to GO train, GO bus, York Region Viva bus rapid transit and the local bus network. Bridge Station will be accessible for buses from Highway 7 and will serve approximately 130 buses per peak hour which can’t be handled by Richmond Hill Centre Bus Terminal. Our plan will bring the many people who will live near Bridge and High Tech stations within a 10-minute walk of rapid transit. Bridge Transit Hub will be accessible from a multiple use path connecting Markham and Richmond Hill, it will bridge also both sides of the rail corridor East/West.

Building the subway at surface level along the existing CN railway corridor reduces the need for complex and costly construction of tunnels and underground stations. We will also be able to complete the project sooner than if the subway was tunneled the entire length of the route. It also protects for a future potential northern extension of the subway by better utilizing the existing railway transportation corridor.

Community wants station at Royal Orchard + a subway not under houses. Metrolinx wants to reduce costs & have Bridge + High Tech. Stations at-grade. Thus; a. Bridge over Don River w/ underdeck subway. b. Shallow Royal O. Station. c. Cut+Cover to Longbridge. d. Two - 250m radius "S" curves to get to CN Tracks at-grade. e. All happy.

The route we’re moving forward with allows us to build a fourth station within the $5.6 billion funding envelope because it minimizes the amount of tunneling needed. With the other underground options, only three stations could be built.

Running subway trains along the existing CN rail corridor in the northern end of the route makes it possible to build that fourth station – and that’s why we need to run a tunnel from Yonge Street to connect to it. By running the extension at surface level along the existing CN railway corridor means we can finish the project sooner and reduces the need for complex, time-consuming, and costly construction of tunnels and underground stations. This approach also protects for a simpler and less costly further extension of the subway in the future.

It’s important to note that we’re going to be using noise and vibration solutions for the project that are proven to work. A big benefit is that they’ll be based on modern and up-to-date industry standards, which have significantly improved since the first subway lines in the GTA were built many decades ago. The detailed studies we’re doing right now will help us make sure we put all the right noise and vibration solutions in place so neighbourhoods along the route stay sought-after places to live in.

Do you actually plan to tunnel under the CN railway? How can it possibly be safer to tunnel under the CN railway than at Yonge and 407? Especially when the subway trains will have to come to grade, as you profess, to Bridge?

We would never move ahead with a design that isn’t safe for our neighbours, our customers and our employees. The detailed studies and all the consultations we’re doing right now will help us make sure we put all the right noise and vibration solutions in place so there are no significant differences between what’s experienced in the Royal Orchard community today and what will be experienced when the extension is in service. We want to make sure the neighbourhoods we serve will stay peaceful and quiet, and remain sought-after places to live in.

We’re looking at a wide array of proven noise and vibration solutions for the project, including resilient fasteners, floating slab and ballast mats to help cushion the tracks and reduce noise and vibration. Rail dampers can also be used to help reduce the noise from passing trains. These types of solutions have been used around the world, including on the recently completed Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension. We will have more detailed information about the solutions we’ll be putting in place in the coming months as further design work is refined and we conduct and consult on environmental assessments.

With the revised alignment there will be two relatively sharp turns but if the route was up Yonge Street there would be just one curve by the north end of the Cemetery. Such a logical alignment but Metrolinx just refuses to follow this route - why?

In addition to the route options we looked at through our business case analysis, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor.

We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations. Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, tunneling under Royal Orchard is the best transit solution.

How can we believe anything you say? What does imperceptible/barely imperceptible mean? You have not used this technology, making the RO community guinea pigs. Have ridership projections been adjusted to factor in COVID? What is logic for HT and Bride station yet nothing for RO?

Noise and vibration levels in the Royal Orchard community were already expected to be extremely low with no significant differences from today’s levels, and these adjustments will make them even lower. Ongoing ground studies and environmental assessments in the Royal Orchard community will inform project designs and help deliver the best solutions for local neighbourhoods. Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels are predicted to be below what humans can feel. We estimate that noise levels will be nearly imperceptible, about as quiet as the average whisper or rustling leaves in the distance.

Bridge and High Tech stations will support York Region’s growth plans for the Langstaff Gateway and Richmond Hill Centre urban grow centres, which have been in place for many years in response to the demand for housing and employment opportunities in the region. Since those areas are expected to grow significantly in the years to come, these stations will help make sure any growth is sustainable by contributing a large portion of the riders that will use the subway extension. We are working with our partners to explore opportunities that could support additional stations at Royal Orchard Boulevard and Cummer Avenue.

So is there going to be a station at Royal Orchard? This "updated" plan shows a potential station at Yonge/Royal Orchard. If ML is going to ruin our community by tunnelling under it, can we at least get a station in return for our loss in property values?

We are working with our partners to explore opportunities that could support additional stations at Royal Orchard Boulevard and Cummer Avenue.

Planning and design work on the potential Royal Orchard and Cummer stations is moving forward, to avoid any delay should they be added to the project.

The 407 transitway won't be built by 2030 but the GO bus still needs to have a stop at Bridge station. The bus terminal is directly adjacent to hwy407. Will there be any direct access ramps for buses to directly enter/leave between hwy 407 and the bus terminal? Otherwise, each GO bus will be wasting 10 mins with turns and through 9-10 intersections.

The design concept and requirements for the bus terminal are being refined based on the needs identified by the TTC, York Region Transit, and other local stakeholders. We are seeking input from the TTC and City of Toronto and will share more details about the Steeles Station transit hub when the Preliminary Design Business Case is finalized.

Please explain why York Region taxpayers must pay, pro rata, per municipality approx. 27% of the costs, and the federal tax money pays for at least 40% of the cost, plus support in the future, when the Province and the City of Toronto will own, operate and control income? Is this funding agreement with York R. already in effect?

Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario are moving the project forward under the Subway Program, which includes three other rapid transit expansions that will get the region moving — the Ontario Line, the Eglinton Crosstown West Extension, and the Scarborough Subway Extension.

The provincial government has committed almost $17 billion toward the Subways Program, as a whole.

York Region has pledged to contribute proportional funding to the capital construction costs of the project through a preliminary agreement with the provincial government. The final contribution from the region will be subject to further refinements to the project’s budget and scope.

The federal government has made a $10.4 billion funding commitment to Ontario’s four priority subway projects, including the Yonge North Subway Extension.

Subway or underground Go Train? YNSE: a subway or underground go train? Another way :very few stations subway or frequently underground go train?

The Yonge North Subway Extension is a roughly eight-kilometre extension of TTC Line 1 that travels north from Finch Station to serve North York, Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill.

The extension will give customers one seamless subway ride between Richmond Hill and downtown Toronto, reducing commute times by as much as 22 minutes. For example, a trip from the Yonge Street and Langstaff Road area in Markham to the intersection of Yonge and Queen in downtown Toronto that takes 70 minutes today will take 48 minutes when the extension goes into service.

How will the constriction of YNSE impact the operation of thousand of buses on Yonge Street every day? What mitigations measures will be implemented to ensure a competitive travel time and reliability of transit services? Including but not limited to temporary dedicated bus lanes and massively increasing GO Train services.

We will be working with our municipal and regional partners to develop a plan that will keep pedestrian and vehicle traffic moving and make sure people can get where they need to go easily while construction is happening. Our plan considers factors like; how people will access local businesses quickly and easily; and how to minimize impacts on TTC, York Region Transit and GO services. Potential traffic impacts are being studied through an updated environmental assessment. We expect to release a draft report on the findings in the weeks to come.

The recipients of letters dont know if there home is going to be destroyed, taken or used. It might just be altered to serve your needs. Is there now a lien on my property so that if I want to sell now, and face the likely consequences of a lower value than it was last week, how do you compensate us for that? How long does the lien stay on?

Metrolinx strives to limit the amount of property we need to support the construction and operation of important and much-needed transit infrastructure. Metrolinx will only look to acquire property that is absolutely necessary to support critical transit construction.

Where we need to acquire property to support new transit infrastructure, it is our responsibility to compensate property owners fairly, not necessarily because the subway will impact their property, but because they own the land that is needed. Whenever we need to acquire property to support a new transit project, we ensure that owners and tenants experience no financial loss.

We have a transparent and unbiased process in place to determine fair market value through appraisals and negotiations. Metrolinx will enlist the services of a third-party appraisal expert to estimate the value of the property. Market factors at the time of the acquisition will inform the assessment and will be based on comparable sales of similar properties in similar locations and situations.

When we confirm our property needs for the project, we will reach out to property owners to explain in detail what is needed and whether that need is permanent or temporary.

What addresses received letters? We need to see the latest route proposal. In detail. Some recipients received all the homes, some did not.

Metrolinx strives to limit the amount of property we need to support the construction and operation of important and much-needed transit infrastructure. Metrolinx will only look to acquire property that is absolutely necessary to support critical transit construction.

Where we need to acquire property to support new transit infrastructure, it is our responsibility to compensate property owners fairly, not necessarily because the subway will impact their property, but because they own the land that is needed. Whenever we need to acquire property to support a new transit project, we ensure that owners and tenants experience no financial loss.

We have a transparent and unbiased process in place to determine fair market value through appraisals and negotiations. Metrolinx will enlist the services of a third-party appraisal expert to estimate the value of the property. Market factors at the time of the acquisition will inform the assessment and will be based on comparable sales of similar properties in similar locations and situations. When we confirm our property needs for the project, we will reach out to property owners to explain in detail what is needed and whether that need is permanent or temporary.

Is the proposed subway route parallel to or under the CN rails? The language is never very clear. Are you going to tunnel under homes at Kirk and continue under the CN tracks? At what depth? Do you have permission from CN for that? Or, will it run underground, parallel to the CN tracks and therefore interfere with the backyards and the cemetery that way?

The route will be at surface level along the existing CN railway corridor. This reduces the need for complex and costly construction of tunnels and underground stations. We will also be able to complete the project sooner than if the subway was tunneled the entire length of the route. It also protects for a future potential northern extension of the subway by better utilizing the existing railway transportation corridor.

We’ll be adding dedicated subway tracks to the existing railway corridor and looking at ways to keep the footprint of the project as small as possible as we build new infrastructure. We’re completing further planning and design work to confirm the precise route the subway will take through the CN Railway corridor, as well as the requirements for the two surface-level stations and train storage facility. We will have more details to share when the Preliminary Design Business Case is finalized.

Why aren't other construction options being considered? Why isn't the option of using cut and cover or building elevated not being considered? The alignment passes over a wide stretch of yonge street which can easily accommodate an elevated or cut and cover section. Speeding up construction, lowering costs, and not tunneling under peoples homes.

Modern tunneling technology has been proven around the world to be an efficient way to build underground subways. The subway extension to Vaughan was recently completed using tunnel boring machines for most of the route. Tunneling allows the subway to be built deeper below the surface, which is not practical with cut-and-cover methods. Being able to build the subway deeper underground means there will be no direct impacts to the homes, buildings and roads at the surface. Subway stations are typically built using cut-and-cover methods because they are significantly larger and have entrances that need to be built at surface level.

what factors taken into account for "compensation"? Many residents are seniors who adapted their homes to retire in place. They have spent their savings modifying their homes so they could live out their lives there. They have family, medical and social support in this neighbourhood. How do you compensate someone for losing everything?

Our approach to compensation for subsurface rights under a property is treated the same way as if we were taking a portion of a front or back lawn. That property has value and will be compensated for that value. Our property team will work closely with residents on developing a valuation, at our cost, and compensating residents accordingly. Our preferred approach is through amicable negotiations and settlement and we would only start an expropriation process to protect project timelines. It is important to note, that although we know noise and vibration will be nearly imperceptible, we are compensating residents for the value of the land we are acquiring. 

We reach out to owners individually once property needs are confirmed so that we can have one-on-one conversations about supports that are tailored to their unique needs.

You only mention 35 homes being affected. Does this include homes that have city property impacted? If the tunnel is running under the front of my home but only under the city portion, which I maintain, will I be contacted and compensated? The value of my home will still go down, especially if a ventilation shaft goes on my city property.

We recognize how important your property is to you and we are committed to providing clear, accurate information as soon as possible. If Metrolinx confirms that your property is needed, you will receive written notification directly from us. Our commitment is to ensure that owners and tenants do not experience a financial loss. Metrolinx may need to acquire some property underground to build the tunnels and support future subway service. Sometimes an entire property is needed, and sometimes just part of it is needed; some property needs are temporary to support construction, and others are permanent to support new infrastructure. Subsurface easements allow for the use of space under the ground, below homes.

In any case, we will compensate owners with fair market value for any property that is needed. It’s important to note that Metrolinx compensates property owners even when the infrastructure we are building is deep underground and no space is occupied at surface level.

Under which properties exactly in Thorny Brae will subway run? The new map of the proposed alignment doesn’t show the houses ,centreline of the tunnel and how deep it is.

The tunnels below the Royal Orchard neighbourhood will be at a minimum depth of 21 metres and as deep as 50 metres below the surface, averaging a more significant depth through much of the community compared to previous plans. These refinements will keep things peaceful and quiet in the neighbourhoods along the route while still delivering all the benefits of the subway extension for York Region.

Metrolinx strives to limit the amount of property we need to support the construction and operation of important and much-needed transit infrastructure. Metrolinx will only look to acquire property that is absolutely necessary to support critical transit construction.

If Metrolinx confirms that your property is needed, you will receive written notification directly from us. Our commitment is to ensure that owners and tenants do not experience a financial loss.

Does City own property back of curb on my grass and how far does it go back. Will Metrolinx compensate me for tunneling under my grass?

We recognize how important your property is to you and we are committed to providing clear, accurate information as soon as possible. If Metrolinx confirms that your property is needed, you will receive written notification directly from us. Our commitment is to ensure that owners and tenants do not experience a financial loss. Metrolinx may need to acquire some property underground to build the tunnels and support future subway service. Sometimes an entire property is needed, and sometimes just part of it is needed; some property needs are temporary to support construction, and others are permanent to support new infrastructure. Subsurface easements allow for the use of space under the ground, below homes.

In any case, we will compensate owners with fair market value for any property that is needed. It’s important to note that Metrolinx compensates property owners even when the infrastructure we are building is deep underground and no space is occupied at surface level.

When will you take homes and property? How does someone plan for their property being dug up below or above ground as opposed to you are taking my house. How do you determine which houses you are going to take?

Metrolinx strives to limit the amount of property we need to support the construction and operation of important and much-needed transit infrastructure. Metrolinx will only look to acquire property that is absolutely necessary to support critical transit construction.

Where we need to acquire property to support new transit infrastructure, it is our responsibility to compensate property owners fairly, not necessarily because the subway will impact their property, but because they own the land that is needed. Whenever we need to acquire property to support a new transit project, we ensure that owners and tenants experience no financial loss.

We have a transparent and unbiased process in place to determine fair market value through appraisals and negotiations. Metrolinx will enlist the services of a third-party appraisal expert to estimate the value of the property. Market factors at the time of the acquisition will inform the assessment and will be based on comparable sales of similar properties in similar locations and situations.

When we confirm our property needs for the project, we will reach out to property owners to explain in detail what is needed and whether that need is permanent or temporary.

I have been trying to visualize your proposed route under residential streets, based upon the info you have been selectively releasing. It would seem that you will affect city property, boulevards, and side walks in front of homes. True? Who? Compensation???

We recognize how important your property is to you and we are committed to providing clear, accurate information as soon as possible. If Metrolinx confirms that your property is needed, you will receive written notification directly from us. After that, Metrolinx will arrange to meet with the property owner to answer any questions they may have, including how much property is needed and why, how the acquisition process works, and expected timelines. Multiple meetings will take place throughout the property acquisition process to ensure property owner has the information and support they need.

Our approach to compensation for subsurface (deep underground) rights under a property is treated the same way as if we were taking a portion of a front or back lawn. That property has value and will be compensated for that value. Our property team will work closely with residents on developing a valuation and compensating residents accordingly. Our preferred approach is through amicable negotiations and settlement and we would only start an expropriation process to protect project timelines. It is important to note, that although we know noise and vibration will be nearly imperceptible, we are compensating residents for the value of the land we are acquiring. 

We reach out to owners individually once property needs are confirmed so that we can have one-on-one conversations about supports that are tailored to their unique needs.

How will the depreciation in fair market value be calculated given the number of unknowns at this time and the impact to resale value in the future as a result of: 1. Fact that train is running under home 2. sound and vibration 3. Most importantly, the presumed registration on title/disclosure to buyer

Metrolinx will need to acquire property to build the tunnels and support future subway service. Some property may also be needed at the surface to accommodate emergency exit buildings and ventilation shafts along the route. In any case, we will compensate owners with fair market value for any property that is needed. It’s important to note that Metrolinx compensates property owners for the right to occupy the space under their property. That property has value and you will be compensated for that value, even when the infrastructure we are building is deep underground and no space is occupied at surface level.

Compensation is determined by the pricing and valuation methods prescribed by the Expropriations Act, (1990). Our property team will work closely with you on developing a valuation, at our cost, and compensating you accordingly. Market factors at the time of the acquisition will inform the valuation and will be based on comparable sales of similar properties in similar locations and situations. If you wish to complete your own appraisal to determine or confirm fair market value, Metrolinx can compensate you for that.

Has CN rail approved the alignment of this plan?

We are in discussions with CN about our plans for the Yonge North Subway Extension as planning and design for the project continues. Metrolinx has a longstanding relationship with CN – we share rail corridor throughout our existing GO network and have done so for years. We’re confident we will be able to effectively work together to move this important project forward.

Metrolinx says the noise and vibration will be practically imperceptible to homes above the subway. Practically imperceptible is still perceptible. Imagine constant “minor” shakes and subway sounds happening all day every day under your home. That is significant nuisance. Can Metrolinx guarantee no noise and vibration to homes above the subway?

Noise and vibration levels in the Royal Orchard community were already expected to be extremely low with no significant differences from today’s levels, and the refinements we’ve made to the route will make them even lower. Ongoing ground studies and environmental assessments in the Royal Orchard community will inform project designs and help deliver the best noise and vibration solutions for local neighbourhoods.

Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels are predicted to be below what humans can feel. We estimate that noise levels will be nearly imperceptible, about as quiet as the average whisper or rustling leaves in the distance.

Studies have shown that even low level noise and vibration(mitigated) can cause physical, emotional and cognitive problems, some irreversible. Your adjusted routing impacts 2 elementary schools with 907 students. Tunneling under the homes of nearly 7,800 people is an experiment. The cost to humans should be factored into the costs of the subway.

Our goal when we plan and design large projects like this is to minimize impacts as much as possible, and there are unique challenges we face no matter where we build.

We are confident that we can effectively manage any project impacts through robust planning, design work and community consultations. We expect to have more detailed information in the coming months as further design work is refined and we move forward with environmental assessments, but our goal will be to minimize impacts to communities as much as possible as we deliver major transit benefits to them. We’re going to be using noise and vibration solutions that have been proven to work on modern subway lines all over the world, including the extension of the western leg of Toronto’s Line 1 subway. Our designs will be based on up-to-date industry standards, which have significantly improved since the first subway lines in the GTA were built many decades ago.

Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels are predicted to be below what humans can feel. We estimate that noise levels will be nearly imperceptible, about as quiet as the average whisper or rustling leaves in the distance.

We are determined to make the project the best possible fit for the communities it will serve. We’ll continue to work closely with our regional and municipal partners as we advance our plans and we’re committed to sharing the latest updates of our plans with the community.

Metrolinx has said the minimum depth is 21 m ground to rail bed. The relevant depth is foundation to top of tunnel. 12 m. Elevation change, curves & speed amplify noise. All are in play. The Schulich tour was a train pulling into a station, level ground, slow speed. Vintage of rolling stock glossed over as an issue. Trains old and new will be used.

We will make sure that future subway service will be unobtrusive and difficult to notice, ensuring communities will be peaceful and quiet when the subway is in service. Our aim is to make sure there are no significant differences between levels of noise and vibration experienced in Royal Orchard today and what those levels will be when the extension is in service.

We now have access to a wide range of solutions to address noise and vibration that simply were not available decades ago, when most of the GTA’s existing subway lines were built. We will use modern solutions that are tested and proven across the globe and recently in Toronto to extend the western leg of Line 1 to Vaughan.

In fact, based on what we have observed inside buildings that sit above the tunnels and the conditions we’ve studied in Royal Orchard, we know the sounds and vibrations from subway trains traveling in the Yonge North Subway Extension’s tunnels will be very difficult to hear and feel. We will do everything practicable to make sure people who live along the subway extension barely notice it.

The tunnels will be surrounded by thick reinforced concrete and will be built to strict design and engineering standards. We’re confident that high-quality, modern tunnels built to the latest industry standards will ensure future subway services won’t be a disruption for the community.

Metrolinx is so sure that noise and vibration will be imperceptible. Will this be backed by a written guarantee and associated compensation if it fails to meet this?

We will make sure that future subway service will be unobtrusive and difficult to notice, ensuring communities will be peaceful and quiet when the subway is in service. Our aim is to make sure there are no significant differences between levels of noise and vibration experienced in Royal Orchard today and what those levels will be when the extension is in service.

We now have access to a wide range of solutions to address noise and vibration that simply were not available decades ago, when most of the GTA’s existing subway lines were built. We will use modern solutions that are tested and proven across the globe and recently in Toronto to extend the western leg of Line 1 to Vaughan.

In fact, based on what we have observed inside buildings that sit above the tunnels and the conditions we’ve studied in Royal Orchard, we know the sounds and vibrations from subway trains traveling in the Yonge North Subway Extension’s tunnels will be very difficult to hear and feel. We will do everything practicable to make sure people who live along the subway extension barely notice it.

The tunnels will be surrounded by thick reinforced concrete and will be built to strict design and engineering standards. We’re confident that high-quality, modern tunnels built to the latest industry standards will ensure future subway services won’t be a disruption for the community.

Why cite Barbican Centre in London? Mr. Collins cited the subway running under the Barbican in London England as an example of successful construction... Are you aware of a Nov 21, 2021 article titled "Barbican residents' ---- as rumbling London Underground keeps them up all night"? Says, "noise is the worst it has ever been and claim it is causing mental health issues".

We’re looking at a wide array of proven noise and vibration solutions for the project, including resilient fasteners, floating slab and ballast mats to help cushion the tracks and reduce noise and vibration. Rail dampers can also be used to help reduce the noise from passing trains. These types of solutions have been used around the world, including on the recently completed Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension. We will have more detailed information about the solutions we’ll be putting in place in the coming months as further design work is refined and we conduct and consult on environmental assessments.

Noise and vibration are created where the train wheels interact with the tracks, and we are investing in modern railway track technology that dampens both the noise and vibration created at this point from train operations. This will ensure that there are no significant differences between levels of noise and vibration experienced in the Royal Orchard community today and what those levels will be when the subway extension is in service.

In the shallowest section of tunnels that will run below single-family homes and a local school, our current designs have the bottoms of the tunnels at a minimum depth of 21metres (19.5 metres to where the train wheels interact with the tracks). This will result in the train wheels interacting with the tracks at a sufficient depth to further keep noise and vibration levels nearly imperceptible.

Have the negatives of track coming to grade been considered? Running trains continuously at grade compromises the safety and noise & vibration requirements of the Langstaff/Gateway community.

Also, possible rain-river and killer-tornado events as recently seen could flood tunnels to the south and destroy rolling stock and infrastructure at surface. Stay underground to protect lives and our capital assets.

We’re looking at a wide array of proven noise and vibration solutions for the project, including resilient fasteners, floating slab and ballast mats to help cushion the tracks and reduce noise and vibration. Rail dampers can also be used to help reduce the noise from passing trains. These types of solutions have been used around the world, including on the recently completed Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension. We will have more detailed information about the solutions we’ll be putting in place in the coming months as further design work is refined and we conduct and consult on environmental assessments.

There is more than one strategy to reduce noise impacts for the nearby communities than just at the source. In instances where reducing the noise at the source won’t do the trick, Metrolinx will look to reduce noise at the receptor – i.e., your ears. This usually means putting a barrier between you and the noise, and one type of barrier is a noise wall.

We are concerned about the noise levels of trains exiting the tunnel coming to Bridge Station. Any homes along this section will experience considerable noise throughout the day/night as trains will be coming and going every several minutes. Please comment.

We’re looking at a wide array of proven noise and vibration solutions for the project, including resilient fasteners, floating slab and ballast mats to help cushion the tracks and reduce noise and vibration. Rail dampers can also be used to help reduce the noise from passing trains. These types of solutions have been used around the world, including on the recently completed Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension. We will have more detailed information about the solutions we’ll be putting in place in the coming months as further design work is refined and we conduct and consult on environmental assessments.

There is more than one strategy to reduce noise impacts for the nearby communities than just at the source. In instances where reducing the noise at the source won’t do the trick, Metrolinx will look to reduce noise at the receptor – i.e., your ears. This usually means putting a barrier between you and the noise, and one type of barrier is a noise wall.

What is the total width of the two tunnels? Your drawings are not very accurate and cause anxiety to our residents. Can you tell us what is the total width of the two tunnels combined from outside to outside planned to go under our homes?

The width of the tunnel changes along the alignment. In the Royal Orchard community, the alignment was designed to the minimum allowable width in accordance to industry and best practice standards.

Will our neighbourhood look like Eglinton during construction? Where will construction start? We are now hearing rumours that it will start in the middle of the project; ie Royal Orchard. Will we be able to get in and out of our driveways? Down our streets? Our kids to school? You have to admit that Eglinton has been a mess for years. No businesses or residence compensation for years of disruption mess.

The planned date to begin the main construction on the project is late 2023. We will have more information about construction timelines as we progress through the next phase of planning and design, but we remain committed to an in-service date of 2029-2030, after the Ontario Line is in service.

We will be working with the our municipal and regional partners to develop a plan that will keep pedestrian and vehicle traffic moving and make sure people can get where they need to go easily while construction is happening. Our plan considers factors like; how people will access neighbourhood streets and local businesses quickly and easily; and how to minimize impacts on TTC, York Region Transit and GO services. Potential traffic impacts are being studied through an updated environmental assessment.

Metrolinx is committed to addressing any noise and vibration due to construction and operation of the extension.

Metrolinx will work with communities to ensure a comprehensive array of measures are in place to address noise or vibration impacts and to ensure designs are sensitive and respectful of communities.

Metrolinx will help residents and businesses through construction by offering noise and traffic mitigation and local business supports like promotional signage, wayfinding, and construction hoarding.

When would construction begin on Baythorn? would the construction be noisy? ie... how much disruption will be there be for the residents of 235 Baythorn.?

The planned date to begin the main construction on the project is late 2023. We will have more information about construction timelines as we progress through the next phase of planning and design, but we remain committed to an in-service date of 2029-2030, after the Ontario Line is in service.

We’re going to be using noise and vibration solutions for the project that are proven to work. A big benefit is that they’ll be based on modern and up-to-date industry standards, which have significantly improved since the first subway lines in the GTA were built many decades ago. We will make sure that future subway service will be unobtrusive and difficult to notice, ensuring communities will be peaceful and quiet when the subway is in service. Our aim is to make sure there are no significant differences between levels of noise and vibration experienced in Royal Orchard today and what those levels will be when the extension is in service.

Benefits? You have asked us to attend numerous community meetings, provide input to you, asked for volunteers to the Community Liaison Committee - in total the RO people have given thousands of hours - and for what? Please tell us what benefit this future route has for our neighbourhood. There is no benefit at all.

Extending subway service through Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill will bring a world-class level of convenience and a better quality of life to the communities it serves. It will provide faster, easier access to downtown Toronto, York Region and all points in between.

We know that higher-order transit like this is transformative in so many ways. The Yonge North Subway Extension will expand travel options along York Region’s Viva bus rapid transit lines and provide more Line 1 subway riders with a seamless journey. These benefits will also provide better access to jobs and offset traffic congestion as drivers get out from behind the wheel in favour of using the subway.

why do the authors of the questions get listed as anonymous?

Community members have the option to remain anonymous when asking a question on Metrolinx Engage page.

Meet the Speakers

Photo of Raj Khetarpal

Raj Khetarpal

Acting VP for Community Engagement – 905 Region

Photo of Stephen Collins

Stephen Collins

Program Sponsor for YNSE

Photo of Charlie Hoang

Charlie Hoang

Global Lead, Transit Architecture, Technical Advisor

Photo of Maria Z

Maria Zintchenko

Manager, Environmental Programs and Assessment

Maria Doyle

Maria Doyle

Manager, Property Acquisitions

Other Attendees:

  • Leona Hollingsworth, Director, Community Engagement – 905
  • Nick Faieta, Senior Manager, Community Engagement – York Region
  • Azim Ahmed, Manager, Community Engagement Yonge North Subway Extension 

  • Sam Kulendran, Engineer, Technical Advisor
  • Joseph Ehrlich, Manager, Rapid Transit Project Planning

Format & Accessibility

Questions will be answered based on popularity (total votes). We aim to answer all questions. Please review and note that conduct inconsistent with our policies will result in removal.

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Comments

Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 12:31

Previously we were told that a hairpin turn could not be accommodated further north on Yonge near Langstaff, now it is showing up at Baythorn. Pls explain. Also explain the impact of the presumably additional cost to tunnel deeper - is the deeper tunnel requirement adding to the projected cost of the project. Keep it on Yonge!

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:14

The curve in the adjusted route meets current TTC subway track standards for curves and grades, while maintaining vibration levels in Royal Orchard below the levels of what humans can feel.  

In order to reach the existing railway corridor, the subway tracks would need to be curved much tighter than the most up-to-date TTC standards, which would mean trains will have to travel along those parts at slower speeds, with longer travel times for riders. 

The other options we analyzed would also hinder the ability of the Langstaff Gateway urban growth centre to realize longstanding regional and municipal growth plans because the proposal essentially splits the development into two parts and would place restrictions on the envisioned growth. 

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 16:46

Metrolinx says the noise and vibration will be practically imperceptible to homes above the subway. Practically imperceptible is still perceptible. Imagine constant “minor” shakes and subway sounds happening all day every day under your home. That is significant nuisance. Can Metrolinx guarantee no noise and vibration to homes above the subway?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:16

Noise and vibration levels in the Royal Orchard community were already expected to be extremely low with no significant differences from today’s levels, and the refinements we’ve made to the route will make them even lower. Ongoing ground studies and environmental assessments in the Royal Orchard community will inform project designs and help deliver the best noise and vibration solutions for local neighbourhoods.  

Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels are predicted to be below what humans can feel. We estimate that noise levels will be nearly imperceptible, about as quiet as the average whisper or rustling leaves in the distance.  

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 23:45

Option 3 seems to be the only option being considered at this point. However, costs sound like they may be increasing with the proposed deeper tunnel. In light of potentially rising costs in option 3 will the first 2 options be reconsidered?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:18

Options 1 and 2 have already been evaluated in our business case analysis. In addition, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor.  

We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations.  

Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, the project is moving forward with the recent refinements to the route. 

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Anonymous's avatar

The recipients of letters dont know if there home is going to be destroyed, taken or used. It might just be altered to serve your needs. Is there now a lien on my property so that if I want to sell now, and face the likely consequences of a lower value than it was last week, how do you compensate us for that? How long does the lien stay on?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 09:21

So is there going to be a station at Royal Orchard? This "updated" plan shows a potential station at Yonge/Royal Orchard. If ML is going to ruin our community by tunnelling under it, can we at least get a station in return for our loss in property values?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:51

We are working with our partners to explore opportunities that could support additional stations at Royal Orchard Boulevard and Cummer Avenue.

To minimize schedule impacts, we are advancing some planning for work for Royal Orchard and Cummer Stations, should they be added to the scope during implementation of YNSE.

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Anonymous's avatar

Why is ML not tunnelling under the graveyard? The same turning radius can be made there. There are hairpin turns in the existing subway line as trains approach Union station at low speeds. Why can't these turns happen in this extensionas well?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:34

Metrolinx has said before: turning from Yonge to east can not be a sharp curve. Now this refine plan has more sharper degree ( almost 90deg and two turns ) curves. Why this can be done if previous one can not?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 23:50

Community wants station at Royal Orchard + a subway not under houses.
Metrolinx wants to reduce costs & have Bridge + High Tech. Stations at-grade.

Thus;
1) Bridge over Don River w/ underdeck subway.
2) Shallow Royal O. Station.
3) Cut+Cover to Longbridge.
4) Two - 250m radius "S" curves to get to CN Tracks at-grade.
5) All happy.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:05

We need to see the latest route proposal. In detail. Some recipients received all the homes, some did not.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 13, 2021 - 10:25

Municipal councils in Markham and Vaughan voted against Option 3. Both candidates for federal office in the recent election were against Option 3. Both candidates in the upcoming provincial election are against Option 3. And you haven't listened to any of our elected representatives. How can you possibly call that 'consultation'?

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Anonymous's avatar

Specifically, do you now have depth estimates along the whole route? Disclose. Maps and diagrams would be best.

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Anonymous's avatar

Many people are actually traumatized by the letter deliveries. Many people are facing impossible decisions with very little detailed information. Do you offer counselling and mental health support?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 10:39

Now that you have an alignment, based on the fact that you are already informing homeowners directly affected with tunnelling below their homes … we want to know who is affected? Not just directly … but which homes will be in the TRANSIT CORRIDOR LANDS… there will no doubt be hundreds! We want to see a map to reflect the 30 metre buffer zone.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 00:33

There are still other options being brought forth, geotechnical drilling is not complete, environment assessment is not done, CN has not approved, residents and all levels of government disapprove of veering off Yonge. We have been told it’s not a matter of cost. Why are you forcing this on us?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

Studies have shown that even low level noise and vibration(mitigated) can cause physical, emotional and cognitive problems, some irreversible. Your adjusted routing impacts 2 elementary schools with 907 students. Tunneling under the homes of nearly 7,800 people is an experiment. The cost to humans should be factored into the costs of the subway.

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Anonymous's avatar

How can it not? Even if you go on the CN corridor, it goes through the centre of the Cemetery. Would it not make more sense to just clip the north corner? Do you have permission from the cemetery to go through there? Do you have permission from CN to go through there?

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Anonymous's avatar

Many residents are seniors who adapted their homes to retire in place. They have spent their savings modifying their homes so they could live out their lives there. They have family, medical and social support in this neighbourhood. How do you compensate someone for losing everything?

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Anonymous's avatar

Why isn't the option of using cut and cover or building elevated not being considered? The alignment passes over a wide stretch of yonge street which can easily accommodate an elevated or cut and cover section. Speeding up construction, lowering costs, and not tunneling under peoples homes.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:12

Please explain why York Region taxpayers must pay, pro rata, per municipality approx. 27% of the costs, and the federal tax money pays for at least 40% of the cost, plus support in the future, when the Province and the City of Toronto will own, operate and control income? Is this funding agreement with York R. already in effect?

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Anonymous's avatar

The language is never very clear. Are you going to tunnel under homes at Kirk and continue under the CN tracks? At what depth? Do you have permission from CN for that? Or, will it run underground, parallel to the CN tracks and therefore interfere with the backyards and the cemetery that way?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 20:50

If now the 90deg curve plan is ok, why do not go back to option 1 or 2?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 14, 2021 - 15:49

How will the constriction of YNSE impact the operation of thousand of buses on Yonge Street every day? What mitigations measures will be implemented to ensure a competitive travel time and reliability of transit services? Including but not limited to temporary dedicated bus lanes and massively increasing GO Train services.

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Anonymous's avatar

We are private property owners, who have strenuously objected to subway under homes. They are private property owners, CN is private property owner. Did they get "affected properties" letter and told that their property might be taken or used?

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Anonymous's avatar

Who planned the communication to the neighbourhood after the plan was approved Wednesday? You left community members in the dark, not knowing if their home was or was not going to be tunneled under. Metrolinx needs to offer a public apology for the mishandling in the media.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:01

YNSE: a subway or underground go train? Another way :very few stations subway or frequently underground go train?

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Anonymous's avatar

You only mention 35 homes being affected. Does this include homes that have city property impacted? If the tunnel is running under the front of my home but only under the city portion, which I maintain, will I be contacted and compensated? The value of my home will still go down, especially if a ventilation shaft goes on my city property.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:56

The 407transitway won't be built by 2030 but the GO bus still needs to have a stop at Bridge station. The bus terminal is directly adjacent to hwy407. Will there be any direct access ramps for buses to directly enter/leave between hwy 407 and the bus terminal? Otherwise, each GO bus will be wasting 10 mins with turns and through 9-10 intersections.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:58

Can people walk through the subway station going between the north and south entrance of Bridge station without paying a fare? The corridor will be an important pedestrian connection for people going between Richmond Hill Centre and Langstaff.

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Anonymous's avatar

'Bridge' station is a very generic and non-descriptive name for a station which does not provide transit riders with a good sense for where the station is located. How come Metrolinx has decided upon this name instead of others? There are many bridges in the GTHA, how come a highway overpass bridge is the namesake for this station?

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Anonymous's avatar

how close will the subway get to Baythorn PS?

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Anonymous's avatar

The new map of the proposed alignment doesn’t show the houses ,centreline of the tunnel and how deep it is.

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Anonymous's avatar

I don't think Mr. Verster is being honest. In his open letter he said it is too complex and costly to put Bridge undergound but at the developers' meeting this week is shows it as underground. Also, you are digging up to 50 metres below houses. Didn't Metrolinx say too expensive to go that deep for Ontario Line? Why here and not there?

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Anonymous's avatar

How can it possibly be safer to tunnel under the CN railway than at Yonge and 407? Especially when the subway trains will have to come to grade, as you profess, to Bridge?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 10:03

Mr. Verster says "no significant increase" in costs to tunnel deeper, and innovative funding to build Royal Orchard statement. Where are the costs? Let us see updated budget. How much have you spent already?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 10:09

In Toronto promise of no expropriations - you will. You promised Jane Finch a plot of land for community centre - you haven't, electric trains for UP Express promised in 2017, you haven't. Trees not planted in Weston, trees cut down on private property, woodlot taken without approval of TRCA. Now promise to Thorncliffe. Hollow?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 11:44

Metrolinx has said the minimum depth is 21 m ground to rail bed. The relevant depth is foundation to top of tunnel. 12 m. Elevation change, curves & speed amplify noise. All are in play. The Schulich tour was a train pulling into a station, level ground, slow speed. Vintage of rolling stock glossed over as an issue. Trains old and new will be used.

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Anonymous's avatar

You say this revised route will impact less houses but the street is not very wide and the tunnel will go under the property of all the houses long that street to say nothing of the 200+ units in the Gazebo. How can you say it impacts less properties?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

Your drawings are not very accurate and cause anxiety to our residents. Can you tell us what is the total width of the two tunnels combined from outside to outside planned to go under our homes?

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Anonymous's avatar

Does City own property back of curb on my grass and how far does it go back. Will Metrolinx compensate me for tunneling under my grass?

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Anonymous's avatar

Metrolinx said that they would look at other subway routing back in spring. Why have we not heard anything before or been involved with the review before this new routing?

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Anonymous's avatar

Metrolinx is so sure that noise and vibration will be imperceptible. Will this be backed by a written guarantee and associated compensation if it fails to meet this?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:08

How does someone plan for their property being dug up below or above ground as opposed to you are taking my house. How do you determine which houses you are going to take?

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Anonymous's avatar

The Official Plan for Langstaff Gateway calls for an internal transit system with connections to a Langstaff/Longbridge Subway station to the west, and an east transit node near the existing GO Station at the entrance to a multilevel Transit Concourse, which will connect Langstaff Gateway and RH Centre. Please revert to this well thought out plan.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:53

Based on the High Tech and Bridge Engage evenings recently the diagrams shown show the subway beside the CN rail corridor not under like earlier represented. How does it travel pass the Holy Cross cemetery without going under it? How are the burial sites beside (or below) the alignment being affected by the Transit Lands Corridor buffer area?

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Anonymous's avatar

I have been trying to visualize your proposed route under residential streets, based upon the info you have been selectively releasing. It would seem that you will affect city property, boulevards, and side walks in front of homes. True? Who? Compensation???

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 23:31

At the Bridge Station, will the station be designed like a side by side station where the YNSE will connect directly with the Richmond Hill GO and potentially a future northern extension of the Ontario Line?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 15, 2021 - 23:32

How deep will the tunnelling be for the Steeles and Clark Stations?

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Anonymous's avatar

Where will construction start? We are now hearing rumours that it will start in the middle of the project; ie Royal Orchard. Will we be able to get in and out of our driveways? Down our streets? Our kids to school? You have to admit that Eglinton has been a mess for years. No businesses or residence compensation for years of disruptionm mess.

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Anonymous's avatar

How will the depreciation in fair market value be calculated given the number of unknowns at this time and the impact to resale value in the future as a result of:
1. Fact that train is running under home
2. sound and vibration
3. Most importantly, the presumed registration on title/disclosure to buyer

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 20:01

Mr. Collins cited the subway running under the Barbican in London England as an example of successful construction... Are you aware of a Nov 21, 2021 article titled "Barbican residents' ---- as rumbling London Underground keeps them up all night"? Says, "noise is the worst it has ever been and claim it is causing mental health issues".

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 10:06

Where South Blvd. crosses the CN Easement will this be an overpass or tunnel beneath the rail/subway line?

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Anonymous's avatar

I have been in touch with Azim Ahmed. I last spoke to him on Sept 14 when he said he would provide written answers to my questions but I am still waiting for these.

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Anonymous's avatar

munity by stating that only 20 homes are affected when there are 200 homes at 8111 Yonge Street under which the subway will travel. When will Ms McHugh and Mr. Verster issue a retraction and acknowledge that the 200 homes in 8111 Yonge Street will be affected? Owneill expect substantial compensation for their subsurface space as it will affect rede

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Anonymous's avatar

will be affected directly by trains going underground?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 16, 2021 - 17:58

With the revised alignment there will be two relatively sharp turns but if the route was up Yonge Street there would be just one curve by the north end of the Cemetery. Such a logical alignment but Metrolinx just refuses to follow this route - why?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 16, 2021 - 19:53

You have asked us to attend numerous community meetings, provide input to you, asked for volunteers to the Community Liaison Committee - in total the RO people have given thousands of hours - and for what? Please tell us what benefit this future route has for our neighbourhood. There is no benefit at all.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 20:29

would the construction be noisy? ie... how much disruption will be there be for the residents of 235 Baythorn.?

[email protected]

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Anonymous's avatar

The language in the letter is not clear. Do you want a subway under your house? Going under one home is too many. If this one refinement was made, why not revert to either of the original options, i.e., along Yonge, have local community and government support, and serve the community best? Is there truly a need for a High Tech and Bridge Station?

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Anonymous's avatar

Running trains continuously at grade compromises the safety and noise & vibration requirements of the Langstaff/Gateway community.
Also, possible rain-river and killer-tornado events as recently seen could flood tunnels to the south and destroy rolling stock and infrastructure at surface. Stay underground to protect lives and our capital assets.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 14:58

What does imperceptible/barely imperceptible mean? You have not used this technology, making the RO community guinea pigs. Have ridership projections been adjusted to factor in COVID? What is logic for HT and Bride station yet nothing for RO?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

We are concerned about the noise levels of trains exiting the tunnel coming to Bridge Station. Any homes along this section will experience considerable noise throughout the day/night as trains will be coming and going every several minutes. Please comment.

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Anonymous's avatar

We at Royal Orchard are people not just property!

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