> Yonge North Subway Extension LIVE - December 16, 2021 | Metrolinx Engage

Yonge North Subway Extension LIVE - December 16, 2021

 

Call-In With Your Question

As we continue to evolve the virtual engagement format, we are adding a call-in option for tonight’s event. To ask your question by voice, join the Zoom meeting here. We aim to keep each question and subsequent answer to 3 minutes allowing for as many call-in questions as possible.

NOTE: please ensure you have the latest version of Zoom installed.

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Agenda

6:30: Meeting Begins/ Opening Remarks  

6:35: Yonge north Subway Extension Project Update 

7:00: Questions and Answers 

8:00: Wrap up & Closing Remarks 

Presentation Materials

Meet the Speakers

Photo of Raj Khetarpal

Raj Khetarpal

Acting VP for Community Engagement – 905 Region

Photo of Stephen Collins

Stephen Collins

Program Sponsor for YNSE

Photo of Charlie Hoang

Charlie Hoang

Global Lead, Transit Architecture, Technical Advisor

Photo of Maria Z

Maria Zintchenko

Manager, Environmental Programs and Assessment

Maria Doyle

Maria Doyle

Manager, Property Acquisitions

Other Attendees:

  • Leona Hollingsworth, Director, Community Engagement – 905
  • Nick Faieta, Senior Manager, Community Engagement – York Region
  • Azim Ahmed, Manager, Community Engagement Yonge North Subway Extension 

  • Sam Kulendran, Engineer, Technical Advisor
  • Joseph Ehrlich, Manager, Rapid Transit Project Planning

Format & Accessibility

Questions will be answered based on popularity (total votes). We aim to answer all questions. Please review and note that conduct inconsistent with our policies will result in removal.

To enable closed captioning, toggle captions “on” in the YouTube video player settings.

 

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Comments

Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 12:31

Previously we were told that a hairpin turn could not be accommodated further north on Yonge near Langstaff, now it is showing up at Baythorn. Pls explain. Also explain the impact of the presumably additional cost to tunnel deeper - is the deeper tunnel requirement adding to the projected cost of the project. Keep it on Yonge!

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:14

The curve in the adjusted route meets current TTC subway track standards for curves and grades, while maintaining vibration levels in Royal Orchard below the levels of what humans can feel.  

In order to reach the existing railway corridor, the subway tracks would need to be curved much tighter than the most up-to-date TTC standards, which would mean trains will have to travel along those parts at slower speeds, with longer travel times for riders. 

The other options we analyzed would also hinder the ability of the Langstaff Gateway urban growth centre to realize longstanding regional and municipal growth plans because the proposal essentially splits the development into two parts and would place restrictions on the envisioned growth. 

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 16:46

Metrolinx says the noise and vibration will be practically imperceptible to homes above the subway. Practically imperceptible is still perceptible. Imagine constant “minor” shakes and subway sounds happening all day every day under your home. That is significant nuisance. Can Metrolinx guarantee no noise and vibration to homes above the subway?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:16

Noise and vibration levels in the Royal Orchard community were already expected to be extremely low with no significant differences from today’s levels, and the refinements we’ve made to the route will make them even lower. Ongoing ground studies and environmental assessments in the Royal Orchard community will inform project designs and help deliver the best noise and vibration solutions for local neighbourhoods.  

Our early studies show that by using available, proven technology, vibration levels are predicted to be below what humans can feel. We estimate that noise levels will be nearly imperceptible, about as quiet as the average whisper or rustling leaves in the distance.  

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 10, 2021 - 23:45

Option 3 seems to be the only option being considered at this point. However, costs sound like they may be increasing with the proposed deeper tunnel. In light of potentially rising costs in option 3 will the first 2 options be reconsidered?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:18

Options 1 and 2 have already been evaluated in our business case analysis. In addition, we recently completed a detailed review of a proposal from the community for an alternative route that would stay along Yonge Street before curving to travel along the northern boundary of Holy Cross Cemetery towards the railway corridor.  

We studied this proposal from every angle, but in the end we concluded the proposal is not an improvement over our current plans because of significant cost increases that would limit our ability to include important benefits in the project, like a fourth station and the potential for additional stations.  

Given that we can reduce noise and vibration from subway service to a nearly imperceptible level, the project is moving forward with the recent refinements to the route. 

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 09:21

So is there going to be a station at Royal Orchard? This "updated" plan shows a potential station at Yonge/Royal Orchard. If ML is going to ruin our community by tunnelling under it, can we at least get a station in return for our loss in property values?

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Metrolinx's avatar

Metrolinx
Jan 5, 2022 - 14:51

We are working with our partners to explore opportunities that could support additional stations at Royal Orchard Boulevard and Cummer Avenue.

To minimize schedule impacts, we are advancing some planning for work for Royal Orchard and Cummer Stations, should they be added to the scope during implementation of YNSE.

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Anonymous's avatar

The recipients of letters dont know if there home is going to be destroyed, taken or used. It might just be altered to serve your needs. Is there now a lien on my property so that if I want to sell now, and face the likely consequences of a lower value than it was last week, how do you compensate us for that? How long does the lien stay on?

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Anonymous's avatar

Why is ML not tunnelling under the graveyard? The same turning radius can be made there. There are hairpin turns in the existing subway line as trains approach Union station at low speeds. Why can't these turns happen in this extensionas well?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:34

Metrolinx has said before: turning from Yonge to east can not be a sharp curve. Now this refine plan has more sharper degree ( almost 90deg and two turns ) curves. Why this can be done if previous one can not?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 23:50

Community wants station at Royal Orchard + a subway not under houses.
Metrolinx wants to reduce costs & have Bridge + High Tech. Stations at-grade.

Thus;
1) Bridge over Don River w/ underdeck subway.
2) Shallow Royal O. Station.
3) Cut+Cover to Longbridge.
4) Two - 250m radius "S" curves to get to CN Tracks at-grade.
5) All happy.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:05

We need to see the latest route proposal. In detail. Some recipients received all the homes, some did not.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 13, 2021 - 10:25

Municipal councils in Markham and Vaughan voted against Option 3. Both candidates for federal office in the recent election were against Option 3. Both candidates in the upcoming provincial election are against Option 3. And you haven't listened to any of our elected representatives. How can you possibly call that 'consultation'?

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Anonymous's avatar

Specifically, do you now have depth estimates along the whole route? Disclose. Maps and diagrams would be best.

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Anonymous's avatar

Many people are actually traumatized by the letter deliveries. Many people are facing impossible decisions with very little detailed information. Do you offer counselling and mental health support?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 10:39

Now that you have an alignment, based on the fact that you are already informing homeowners directly affected with tunnelling below their homes … we want to know who is affected? Not just directly … but which homes will be in the TRANSIT CORRIDOR LANDS… there will no doubt be hundreds! We want to see a map to reflect the 30 metre buffer zone.

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Anonymous's avatar

Studies have shown that even low level noise and vibration(mitigated) can cause physical, emotional and cognitive problems, some irreversible. Your adjusted routing impacts 2 elementary schools with 907 students. Tunneling under the homes of nearly 7,800 people is an experiment. The cost to humans should be factored into the costs of the subway.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 00:33

There are still other options being brought forth, geotechnical drilling is not complete, environment assessment is not done, CN has not approved, residents and all levels of government disapprove of veering off Yonge. We have been told it’s not a matter of cost. Why are you forcing this on us?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

How can it not? Even if you go on the CN corridor, it goes through the centre of the Cemetery. Would it not make more sense to just clip the north corner? Do you have permission from the cemetery to go through there? Do you have permission from CN to go through there?

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Anonymous's avatar

Many residents are seniors who adapted their homes to retire in place. They have spent their savings modifying their homes so they could live out their lives there. They have family, medical and social support in this neighbourhood. How do you compensate someone for losing everything?

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Anonymous's avatar

Why isn't the option of using cut and cover or building elevated not being considered? The alignment passes over a wide stretch of yonge street which can easily accommodate an elevated or cut and cover section. Speeding up construction, lowering costs, and not tunneling under peoples homes.

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Anonymous's avatar

The language is never very clear. Are you going to tunnel under homes at Kirk and continue under the CN tracks? At what depth? Do you have permission from CN for that? Or, will it run underground, parallel to the CN tracks and therefore interfere with the backyards and the cemetery that way?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 12, 2021 - 20:50

If now the 90deg curve plan is ok, why do not go back to option 1 or 2?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 14, 2021 - 15:49

How will the constriction of YNSE impact the operation of thousand of buses on Yonge Street every day? What mitigations measures will be implemented to ensure a competitive travel time and reliability of transit services? Including but not limited to temporary dedicated bus lanes and massively increasing GO Train services.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:12

Please explain why York Region taxpayers must pay, pro rata, per municipality approx. 27% of the costs, and the federal tax money pays for at least 40% of the cost, plus support in the future, when the Province and the City of Toronto will own, operate and control income? Is this funding agreement with York R. already in effect?

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Anonymous's avatar

We are private property owners, who have strenuously objected to subway under homes. They are private property owners, CN is private property owner. Did they get "affected properties" letter and told that their property might be taken or used?

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Anonymous's avatar

Who planned the communication to the neighbourhood after the plan was approved Wednesday? You left community members in the dark, not knowing if their home was or was not going to be tunneled under. Metrolinx needs to offer a public apology for the mishandling in the media.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:01

YNSE: a subway or underground go train? Another way :very few stations subway or frequently underground go train?

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Anonymous's avatar

You only mention 35 homes being affected. Does this include homes that have city property impacted? If the tunnel is running under the front of my home but only under the city portion, which I maintain, will I be contacted and compensated? The value of my home will still go down, especially if a ventilation shaft goes on my city property.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:56

The 407transitway won't be built by 2030 but the GO bus still needs to have a stop at Bridge station. The bus terminal is directly adjacent to hwy407. Will there be any direct access ramps for buses to directly enter/leave between hwy 407 and the bus terminal? Otherwise, each GO bus will be wasting 10 mins with turns and through 9-10 intersections.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:58

Can people walk through the subway station going between the north and south entrance of Bridge station without paying a fare? The corridor will be an important pedestrian connection for people going between Richmond Hill Centre and Langstaff.

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Anonymous's avatar

'Bridge' station is a very generic and non-descriptive name for a station which does not provide transit riders with a good sense for where the station is located. How come Metrolinx has decided upon this name instead of others? There are many bridges in the GTHA, how come a highway overpass bridge is the namesake for this station?

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Anonymous's avatar

The language in the letter is not clear. Do you want a subway under your house? Going under one home is too many. If this one refinement was made, why not revert to either of the original options, i.e., along Yonge, have local community and government support, and serve the community best? Is there truly a need for a High Tech and Bridge Station?

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Anonymous's avatar

how close will the subway get to Baythorn PS?

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Anonymous's avatar

The new map of the proposed alignment doesn’t show the houses ,centreline of the tunnel and how deep it is.

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Anonymous's avatar

I don't think Mr. Verster is being honest. In his open letter he said it is too complex and costly to put Bridge undergound but at the developers' meeting this week is shows it as underground. Also, you are digging up to 50 metres below houses. Didn't Metrolinx say too expensive to go that deep for Ontario Line? Why here and not there?

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Anonymous's avatar

How can it possibly be safer to tunnel under the CN railway than at Yonge and 407? Especially when the subway trains will have to come to grade, as you profess, to Bridge?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 10:03

Mr. Verster says "no significant increase" in costs to tunnel deeper, and innovative funding to build Royal Orchard statement. Where are the costs? Let us see updated budget. How much have you spent already?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 10:09

In Toronto promise of no expropriations - you will. You promised Jane Finch a plot of land for community centre - you haven't, electric trains for UP Express promised in 2017, you haven't. Trees not planted in Weston, trees cut down on private property, woodlot taken without approval of TRCA. Now promise to Thorncliffe. Hollow?

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 11:44

Metrolinx has said the minimum depth is 21 m ground to rail bed. The relevant depth is foundation to top of tunnel. 12 m. Elevation change, curves & speed amplify noise. All are in play. The Schulich tour was a train pulling into a station, level ground, slow speed. Vintage of rolling stock glossed over as an issue. Trains old and new will be used.

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Anonymous's avatar

You say this revised route will impact less houses but the street is not very wide and the tunnel will go under the property of all the houses long that street to say nothing of the 200+ units in the Gazebo. How can you say it impacts less properties?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

Your drawings are not very accurate and cause anxiety to our residents. Can you tell us what is the total width of the two tunnels combined from outside to outside planned to go under our homes?

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Anonymous's avatar

Does City own property back of curb on my grass and how far does it go back. Will Metrolinx compensate me for tunneling under my grass?

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Anonymous's avatar

Metrolinx said that they would look at other subway routing back in spring. Why have we not heard anything before or been involved with the review before this new routing?

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Anonymous's avatar

Metrolinx is so sure that noise and vibration will be imperceptible. Will this be backed by a written guarantee and associated compensation if it fails to meet this?

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Anonymous's avatar

The Official Plan for Langstaff Gateway calls for an internal transit system with connections to a Langstaff/Longbridge Subway station to the west, and an east transit node near the existing GO Station at the entrance to a multilevel Transit Concourse, which will connect Langstaff Gateway and RH Centre. Please revert to this well thought out plan.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 11:53

Based on the High Tech and Bridge Engage evenings recently the diagrams shown show the subway beside the CN rail corridor not under like earlier represented. How does it travel pass the Holy Cross cemetery without going under it? How are the burial sites beside (or below) the alignment being affected by the Transit Lands Corridor buffer area?

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Anonymous's avatar

I have been trying to visualize your proposed route under residential streets, based upon the info you have been selectively releasing. It would seem that you will affect city property, boulevards, and side walks in front of homes. True? Who? Compensation???

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 23:31

At the Bridge Station, will the station be designed like a side by side station where the YNSE will connect directly with the Richmond Hill GO and potentially a future northern extension of the Ontario Line?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 15, 2021 - 23:32

How deep will the tunnelling be for the Steeles and Clark Stations?

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Anonymous's avatar

Where will construction start? We are now hearing rumours that it will start in the middle of the project; ie Royal Orchard. Will we be able to get in and out of our driveways? Down our streets? Our kids to school? You have to admit that Eglinton has been a mess for years. No businesses or residence compensation for years of disruptionm mess.

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Anonymous's avatar

How will the depreciation in fair market value be calculated given the number of unknowns at this time and the impact to resale value in the future as a result of:
1. Fact that train is running under home
2. sound and vibration
3. Most importantly, the presumed registration on title/disclosure to buyer

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 20:01

Mr. Collins cited the subway running under the Barbican in London England as an example of successful construction... Are you aware of a Nov 21, 2021 article titled "Barbican residents' ---- as rumbling London Underground keeps them up all night"? Says, "noise is the worst it has ever been and claim it is causing mental health issues".

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 11, 2021 - 15:08

How does someone plan for their property being dug up below or above ground as opposed to you are taking my house. How do you determine which houses you are going to take?

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Anonymous's avatar

Running trains continuously at grade compromises the safety and noise & vibration requirements of the Langstaff/Gateway community.
Also, possible rain-river and killer-tornado events as recently seen could flood tunnels to the south and destroy rolling stock and infrastructure at surface. Stay underground to protect lives and our capital assets.

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 10:06

Where South Blvd. crosses the CN Easement will this be an overpass or tunnel beneath the rail/subway line?

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Anonymous's avatar

I have been in touch with Azim Ahmed. I last spoke to him on Sept 14 when he said he would provide written answers to my questions but I am still waiting for these.

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Anonymous's avatar

munity by stating that only 20 homes are affected when there are 200 homes at 8111 Yonge Street under which the subway will travel. When will Ms McHugh and Mr. Verster issue a retraction and acknowledge that the 200 homes in 8111 Yonge Street will be affected? Owneill expect substantial compensation for their subsurface space as it will affect rede

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Anonymous's avatar

will be affected directly by trains going underground?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 16, 2021 - 17:58

With the revised alignment there will be two relatively sharp turns but if the route was up Yonge Street there would be just one curve by the north end of the Cemetery. Such a logical alignment but Metrolinx just refuses to follow this route - why?

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Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Dec 16, 2021 - 19:53

You have asked us to attend numerous community meetings, provide input to you, asked for volunteers to the Community Liaison Committee - in total the RO people have given thousands of hours - and for what? Please tell us what benefit this future route has for our neighbourhood. There is no benefit at all.

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 16, 2021 - 20:29

would the construction be noisy? ie... how much disruption will be there be for the residents of 235 Baythorn.?

[email protected]

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Anonymous's avatar
Dec 15, 2021 - 14:58

What does imperceptible/barely imperceptible mean? You have not used this technology, making the RO community guinea pigs. Have ridership projections been adjusted to factor in COVID? What is logic for HT and Bride station yet nothing for RO?

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Anonymous's avatar
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Anonymous's avatar

We are concerned about the noise levels of trains exiting the tunnel coming to Bridge Station. Any homes along this section will experience considerable noise throughout the day/night as trains will be coming and going every several minutes. Please comment.

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Anonymous's avatar

We at Royal Orchard are people not just property!

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