> Ontario Line LIVE: East – October 5, 2021 | Metrolinx Engage

Ontario Line LIVE: East – October 5, 2021

Archive - October 5, 2021

On October 5, 2021, Metrolinx hosted a presentation and live Q&A for the East segment, with a focus on the Lakeshore East Joint Corridor Early Works Report, with over 100 people in attendance. During the virtual open house, we announced presented key findings from the Lakeshore East Joint Corrido, clarified the heights of the retaining walls with renderings and explained construction requirements at each bridge. A reminder that we have an online consultation to gather feedback on design options for the retaining and noise walls, which will remain open until October 14, 2021. To help provide more of an understanding of what Ontario Line and GO trains could sound like with the future sound barriers, we also launched an online sound demo. After the presentation, we answered top-voted questions submitted by registrants, as well as live questions from participants using a call-in option. Participants asked a variety of questions related to the various study disciplines included in the early works reports, construction noise monitoring, and mitigation measures that would be implemented.

For those who weren’t able to join us, you’ll find the video recording below. We’re looking forward to holding many more meetings in the future.

Call-In With Your Question

As we continue to evolve the virtual engagement format, we are adding a call-in option for tonight’s event. To ask your question by voice, join the Zoom meeting here. We aim to keep each question and subsequent answer to 3 minutes allowing for as many call-in questions as possible.

NOTE: please ensure you have the latest version of Zoom installed.

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Agenda

6:30PM: Meeting Begins/Opening Remark

6:35PM: Presentation: Lakeshore East Joint Corridor Early Works Report

7:00PM : Questions and Answers (pre-submitted questions)

7:30PM: Questions and Answers (call-in questions via Zoom)

7:55PM: Wrap up and Closing Remarks

Meet the Speakers

Photo of Richard Tucker

Richard Tucker

Ontario Line Project Director

Photo of Malcolm MacKay

Malcolm MacKay

Ontario Line Project Sponsor

Photo of Carrie Sheaffer

Carrie Sheaffer

Senior Manager, Environmental Programs and Assessment

Brian

Brian Bulnes

Acoustic Engineer, AECOM

Format & Accessibility

Questions will be answered based on popularity (total votes). We aim to answer all questions.

Please review and note that conduct inconsistent with our policies will result in removal.

To enable closed captioning, toggle captions “on” in the YouTube video player settings.

Immersive sound demonstration →

Listen to future Ontario Line and GO trains in the Lakeshore East rail corridor.

Submit Questions and Vote Now!

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Comments

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Anonymous's avatar

You are asking for comments and questions about noise walls and tree plantings but our community is not ready to move on from the fundamental decision about the alignment of the Ontario Line through Leslieville-Riverside. At the Sept 23rd Open House the most popular question asked for a detailed cost comparison of your plan to run the OL along the elevated rail corridor with the community and Toronto City Council endorsed plan to run this 1.5 km section underground (the “Munroe Option”). Your answer was not acceptable. Given the expense and disruption involved, it is your responsibility to give serious consideration to this viable alternative. We believe the Ontario Line should be buried between East Harbour and Gerrard Street. You will never convince this community that you have chosen the best alignment until you respond to the very reasonable request from this community to provide a detailed analysis of the underground Munroe Option. When will you provide this?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 10:17

The question of underground alignment will not go away - likely because it was not address properly. These 2 questions must be answered:

1) What is the cost and cost difference between the current plan using the rail corridor and the underground "Munro" option (e.g. continue on Eastern to Carlaw to Gerrard to Pape station).

2) What alternatives are there and what concessions can the local community provide to reduce the cost difference to allow the underground alignment to proceed (e.g. a) go under Eastern to Pape, eliminating the Carlaw "jog", and/or b) using cut-and-cover for the portion of the line from East Harbour Station to Pape Station and to Minton Place)

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 14:42

Your "noise demo" https://www.ontariolinesoundstudio.ca/listen/ is an interesting idea. To be closer to reality, please add these options so we can hear the sound of:
- an OL and GO train passing at the same time as they are likely to do given there will be 1500 trains a day
- a diesel GO train given that it will be years before all GO service is electric
- an OL train braking and starting up at Queen and Degrassi rather than just passing through the station since all OL trains will stop there
- announcements/bells etc that will be audible on the street level of Queen and Degrassi from the open-air station above. We need to have a demo of the "peak/breakthrough noise"

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:15

Why is your plan for tree removals not part of the EWR? We have 30 days to comment on the plans and they are not included, nor any timeline for removals. How will you address the lack of community feedback and issue resolution process on this priority issue for our community?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 15:46

It's not clear what the objective of this "consultation" is. Meteolinx is vigorously promoting an above ground design with slogans e.g. "Awkward...", billboards and glossy promotional booklets. It appears that the proposed design will have huge impacts on the host community. But you have not costed or evaluated the community's proposed underground option in spite of repeated requests. This process is meaningless if it does not evaluate other less impactful designs. Slogans and advertising in the middle of a consultation demonstrates how this process is disingenuous and simply a corporate communications exercise. Might that change?

Anonymous's avatar

What is the frequency calculation you are using? Your average passby DBA for OL trains with mitigation shows 60-70 DBA per passby, which is under the MOEE protocol - however, how do you account for the frequency of passbys vs. the current level of passbys DBA's? OL passby predicted at every 90 seconds vs. current GO passby - every 15 minutes to 7 mins - which will create a constant level of noise duration vs. what is current. Have you mapped this to understand how the overall level of noise will increase due to overlapping simultaneous passby and duration?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:54

You have only given one choice of noise wall material - and from the EWR you've only modelled for one choice - clear walls- and yet you are asking what kind of noise walls we want. What other choices are there and what sound absorption properties do they have?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:12

Why is Metrolinx not meeting the standard noise & vibration limits of 55 dB during the day and 50 dB during the night as their baseline for the rail corridor? Your average 'Project w Barrier' Day noise levels are significantly over the 55 dB standard. Shouldn't you be doing everything you can to meet these existing standards?

Anonymous's avatar

Are trains not running simultaneously? Please explain why would 'additive vibration' be a rare occurrence on a 6 lane railway -- as per this quote from the EWR.
"In the rare occurrence of additive vibration, such as during a simultaneous GO train and Ontario Line vehicle pass-by, sample calculations indicate that overall vibration levels would not be significantly higher than that of the dominant individual source. Therefore, the results within this report are based on the worst case single pass-bys of trains operating on GO or Ontario Line tracks" page 82.

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:56

You haven't listed Staging Areas as impacting Heritage properties and other sensitive receptors. Why and will you update the EWR to include them?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 15:02

Please explain the difference between average noise levels and peak noise levels. Where is the data for peak levels? How have you accounted for diesel trains with 1 or 2 locomotives and either 6 or 12 cars?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:16

MOEE/TTC protocol was written 30 years ago -and clearly states it should only be used to assess TTC vehicles. How can you claim that the TTC SUBWAY DBA standard at 80 DBA passby is applicable to above ground OL trains as a baseline?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 13:40

Why have you not included noise & vibration data showing those levels for construction equipment/activities COMBINED with existing corridor noise and vibration levels? How do you plan to factor in the current corridor noise levels into construction and mitigate for it?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 4, 2021 - 00:04

You present only the disruptive above ground option in this report. Shouldn't you explore different options and consult the public about pros and cons of different routes? If there's one alignment that is being presented, what exactly is the point of this meeting? What are you consulting us on?

Cost out the underground option!

- Let's see how the underground option performs in terms of noise and vibration.
- Let's see how many trees we can save.
- Let's see how less disruptive the construction is.
- Let's see if we can keep Riverside and Leslieville healthy and livable.

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:46

Vibration from the future Ontario Line and GO track operations is predicted to exceed the MOEE/GO or MOEE/TTC Protocol mitigation thresholds at locations POW01_V, POW04, POW09, POW14, POW15, POW18, POW23, POW24 (exceedances due to GO track operations), and POW_10V (exceedance due to Ontario Line track operations). page 40
We note the 30 day feedback for issue resolution process will be over by the time this vibration plan is released. What is the timing of this further study and will the community have access to it?

Anonymous's avatar

We have 3 high-rise buildings of vulnerable senior populations - how can you not provide additional noise mitigation for these buildings, one next to the 'Leslieville Station', one between and overlooking 2 major bridges at Dundas & Logan, and one overlooking the portal at Pape/Gerrard?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:59

Please describe the mitigations you will be providing the community during overnight track work prior to the noise walls being installed?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:18

"A plan to manage air quality will be developed to ensure consistent attention to mitigation of dust and particulates, including silica, from the construction site. The following mitigation measures should be considered in the plan to manage air quality"
Who develops this plan, Metrolinx or Contractor? Who is responsible for monitoring and adherence of it?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:33

In many cases your noise contour maps for 'Future Day' and 'Future Night' are incorrect and do not match the data tables included for 'Project with Barriers" noise levels. Will you be revising these maps to accurately reflect the data? (Colours indicate 55-60 when levels are over 60 dB at POW- 02, POW - 03, POW-11, POW-24, POW- 20, POW 19,) chiefly, Fontbonne Ministry, Jimmie Simpson Centre, Ray McCreery Towers, Francis Beavis Towers)

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:52

Please clarify how homeowners and residents would find out more about the specific construction plans for their homes and when?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 14:58

Will you be provide 1 week or more notice of night work and details and 24 construction hotline to call for complaints/information?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 23:58

After ignoring community wishes for months about wanting an underground route, now you're disingenuously 'consulting' about the colour of the noise wall.

If you're serious about letting the public have a say, you need to provide better data as to how different types of noise walls perform in terms of noise mitigation.

Your report provides predicted noise levels with barrier. Well, which barrier? Clear one, absorptive one? Don't you think the public needs to know?

You're not fooling anyone with these farcical open houses. No noise wall can effectively reduce the noise from 6 lanes of rail traffic in our residential neighbourhood. BURY THE LINE!

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 5, 2021 - 17:11

Has it been determined what properties in the East segment will require expropriation and have all affected property owners been informed?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 1, 2021 - 15:48

Please explain how water and snow will drain off the elevated corridor, and will the drainage plans impact property owners and their land who back onto the corridor? There have been many flooding complaints where noise walls back onto properties in other areas of the city.

Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Oct 4, 2021 - 14:37

Will all stations have Wifi?

Anonymous's avatar

The noise 'simulation' is completely biased in two ways. First, we only get to hear noise without the barrier that Metrolinx has already chosen and the noise without. There is no underground option, what the local Leslieville and Riverside communities have been promoting, and the city too. Second, the high frequency of GO and the OL will mean that we neighbours get the CUMULATIVE noise of several different trains at once, very often in the course of a day. Why not do a proper study of the CUMULATIVE impacts of all the trains?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 5, 2021 - 17:39

During the last update additional park land was brought up many times as a benefit for the above ground Ontario line option. Is there a map that shows the additional park land locations?

Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Oct 5, 2021 - 18:51

Does the bridge over Eastern Avenue not need replacement or alteration? Will the bridge over Queen Street be added to or replaced?

Anonymous's avatar

Its not an opinion, its a fact that the sound barriers used will only baffle sound close to the track and amplify it for those who are about 100 meters away. The sound barrier technology proposed has a long and solid history of not working as intended. Not just that, but this involves removing mature trees and replacing them with nonsense. Furthermore this is not what anyone in the east end wants. This is not smart development, this is cost cutting at the expense of one of the most up and coming neighbourhoods in Toronto. This asinine idea it can go above ground needs to stop.

Anonymous's avatar

Your report suggests the noise generated from the Ontario Line trains overnight to be around 70 dB. You provided no data at all about cumulative noise impacts from GO, VIA, freight and OL trains. OL train alone generating ~70dB is a significant concern, especially overnight! This will wake people up along the rail corridor. You can't build transit that prevents thousands of local residents from sleeping.

Are you consulting with Toronto Public Health or Ministry of Health about your plans?

The data clearly shows we need an underground alignment in our neighbourhood.

Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Oct 5, 2021 - 07:21

You are creating a very large area under the railway corridor that already, with the existing one, is a dark unpleasant space that receives no sunlight and suffers from moisture and water problems. Your design will not only increase these problems, but even makes walking along the underpass a very unpleasant experience. Your design shows no sensitivity to a neighborhood that is supposed to be a friendly walkable community. You are creating a "Gardiner expressway" within a heritage district under the pretense of building "better and cheaper" transit . You have not provided detailed costs for this project compared to other alternatives, which have been submitted and are supported by the community. Any reasonable explanation for this?

Anonymous's avatar

You released the EWR for the East Segment on Sept 23, on the same day as the EWR for the East Harbour Station. The public has until October 24 to comment on both of these reports. It is unreasonable to expect members of the public to read, understand and make comments on two reports that are hundreds of pages long within the same 30 day period. This shows a lack of desire on the part of Metrolinx to conduct meaningful community consultation with the public. Will you extend the 30 day comment period for these reports? How about until November 15?

Anonymous's avatar

Less PR and more straight answers. Treat people with integrity and honesty. We know the difference.

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 23:07

Your noise data is all predicted. Even for 'current' noise levels, you predicted them. Why did you not measure current noise levels? How can we be assured that these are accurate estimates?

Anonymous's avatar
Oct 3, 2021 - 23:10

Above ground OL is going to be extremely disruptive. There are hundreds of homes in close proximity to the rail corridor. We need to understand how your above ground OL will impact indoor noise levels, and whether our homes will continue to be livable are very serious concerns. Please provide indoor noise data (current and predicted).

Anonymous's avatar

The Early works report is suppose to identify what alternative were considered. The alternatives do not show that the viable underground option put forward by the city and Steve Monroe was never considered. How can you justify saying it is too costly, if it was never considered? The only alternatives are slight variations of the Metrolinx plan. This is NOT community engagement.

Anonymous's avatar

Anonymous
Oct 4, 2021 - 22:47

I think that most of the Ontario line stations should have side platforms to avoid blind people to fall onto tracks.